Hello!

If you’ve ever wanted to eavesdrop on another couple talking about their marriage, now’s your chance. For a recent podcast episode, my pastor husband and I talked about some challenging issues that ministry couples face. We discussed the impact that ministry has had on our marriage, ways wives can support our pastor husbands, and how to approach sensitive conversation topics with your spouse. Being a preacher, Greg responded to most questions with a 3-point mini-lesson! He said some good stuff really fast, which made editing harder, so here’s most of our conversation in written form.

Greg has pastored three churches, and we are currently serving at First Baptist Church in Fort Smith, Arkansas. Before that he served almost 10 years with the Southern Baptist Convention in Arkansas and Nashville, Tennessee. But he began ministry as a staff pastor at Adrian Rogers’ church in Memphis, serving first with men and new members, then leading the Singles Ministry for 4 years. 

Janet:

We were married almost 9 years before you answered God’s call to preach. During that time you were building a law career, so you were working hard, long hours with a 45-minute commute each way. Our children were young. Then you were also a deacon at church, taught Sunday school, and served on committees.

For wives who only know ministry life, can you talk some about balancing your workload and church life when you were a lay leader compared to working full-time in ministry?

Greg:

Having been a layman and now pastoring layman greatly impacted our ministry, I believe, because we sat in their seats. We understand that most church people work for 45 or 50 hours at their jobs before they start writing their lessons, before they host fellowships with their Sunday school classes, before they counsel or disciple people. So we approach ministry with a great deal of sensitivity about the amount of time and sacrifice they’re making to serve at church. I try to serve them the way that I would have wanted to be served when I was a layman with a career serving on top of that. I make sure that our staff understands the price our laymen are paying, because some of them don’t have that experience. Our staff should be prepared for meetings and projects, so when lay folks show up to serve, they are doing real ministry instead of having to do a bunch of pre-ministry prep work. For church members, ministry service is a spiritual lifeline to them and a spiritual strength to them. A lot of staff guys won’t understand that because they were called into ministry young and went to Bible college then seminary, which is all fine, but they just don’t have that experience of balance. And sometimes when ministers work an evening or a Saturday or late on a Sunday they will have a struggle with that. 

Janet:

Or their wives will have a struggle with that.

Greg:

They might think, “Well, I put in my 40 hours and I shouldn’t have to work anymore.” As ministers, we are in the best sense of this term professionals, meaning we don’t punch time clocks. We do the work until it’s done and done with excellence. It’s important to understand that when I put in some extra hours, I’m only catching up to the amount of hours that a layperson is putting forth, which gives us a whole new understanding of what balance means. 

Janet:

Once when I was griping about your not being home enough, I’ll never forget you mentioned several of our friends who had big jobs at their companies plus big ministry responsibilities at church. Then you said, “I’m sure not going to let them serve more as a volunteer than I’m doing as a professional minister!” That was very helpful for me to put that into a context that I could wrap my mind around, and I’ve not struggled with that since.

Greg:

Well, and that’s a common experience. One thing I’d encourage wives and husbands to do in ministry is to really set those expectations and have the conversations like you just described. Where does our perspective come from? Where are our boundaries going to be? What are the standards that we have and set proper expectations? As a senior pastor hiring younger guys now, I see them sometimes come in with an expectation that is not accurate and that’s where the frustration is. But if we align our expectations together and understand where our lay folks are and what that leadership model is for them, then it really helps us strike the balance, make good decisions, and be healthy in how we serve.

Janet:

You know, I couldn’t really help in your work when you were a lawyer. There wasn’t much I could bring to that! But ministry is a different kind of job–for the man and for the marriage.

How can we ministry wives support our husbands?

Greg:

Clearly when you read stats and you talk to pastors and their wives, you really understand there’s a lot of struggle in that. 

#1

Most importantly, our marriages need to be biblical and strong. The best way you can support your husband is just by being a biblical wife and helping him be a biblical husband. If we’re walking with Jesus and we’re striving to grow our marriage as a healthy marriage, that’s the strongest support that we can have.

#2

Recognize the weight that he feels because of the call to ministry. Now I don’t mean that in a way that we’re letting him off the hook and he can use that as an excuse. But when you talk with him, when you’re evaluating where he is and what’s going on with him, when he’s overbalanced and you’re trying to bring him back into the family—it helps when you can remember what it is he’s dealing with. This helps you know how to communicate to him better, how to connect with what’s happening, how to share with him what he needs to do, or how to encourage him back into balance. Our call to ministry is not something that makes us more spiritual. It’s an anchor in times of struggle when I’m thinking, Why am I doing this? I’m going to throw up my hands and go! So it is an anchor that I know I was called to ministry.

The flip side of our call is that it’s a burden. People are dying going to hell every day around us and I have got to see our church doing something about it. I’ve got to do something about it. I can’t just not do something.  So it is that burden and that anchor that keep us solid in ministry, connected to Jesus, and confirmed in what we’re supposed to be doing. Well, that has an effect on us! That’s why it’s hard sometimes for guys to leave it at the office. Or there’s always one more spiritual thing or there’s always one more person in need. That burden is hard to carry at times.  I think when you understand that he’s not just choosing work— he’s processing this calling and its effect on his perspective—it helps you know how to talk to him. It helps you know how to encourage him into the family time to get balanced, to sit down and rest, to eat more healthy, whatever it is. If you just have that perspective in your mind and you pay attention and watch him, it will help you effectively communicate to him better and more clearly.

#3

Offer feedback and encouragement. I really like when you talk about a message or a strategy or something you’re hearing in the congregation. When we’re talking about ministry together and you’re giving feedback like that, it makes me feel like you’re in this with me. I feel good that we’re in this together, like we’re a team, like I’m connected to you. 

Janet:

When thinking about feedback, early in our ministry journey I was probably stingy with compliments about your preaching. God has gifted you with communication skills, and speaking in front of a crowd has never been a struggle for you. You’re good in the pulpit, and people are always complimenting your sermons and preaching. So I thought there was no need for me to tell you the sermon was good because everybody else in the church had already said it! Then you told me, “I don’t care what they think; I only care what you think!” I guess that was the first time I really understood that part of being in it together. My opinion was important to you and you wanted to hear from me regardless of what other people were saying.

Greg:

Well, that’s right. You’re the person that I trust most in the entire church, so your voice is the most influential in my life and it means the most to me. I trust your spiritual life and wisdom. When other people are trying to be encouraging to the pastor, most of the time they’re just trying to say, “Thank you for being our pastor. We’re glad you’re here.” They’re trying to be encouraging. But I’m concerned about fears like Is my wife dying in my preaching? Is she drowning because I’ve totally missed what’s going on in the church and I’m doing something else? So it’s more meaningful when there is an interchange, a conversation that speaks to my heart and gives me wisdom. It’s a valuable filter process that lets me know we’re doing this together, which is the most important confidence that I need.

Janet:

You’ve told me before I’m the most influential person in the church because I have more influence over you than anybody else does, so can you talk some about that? 

Greg:

Well, I want to encourage the pastor’s wife who’s following this. You are special to your husband and you’re special to the Lord. When God called your husband into ministry, He knew that you were going to be his wife, and He equipped you and put you right there by his side. Whatever your skill sets are whatever things you enjoy doing—You can be an upfront person and teach women’s ministry or you can sing in the choir or you can be something of an introvert who prefers one-on-one interactions. . Whatever your skill set or role, you are special because you are the support and the partner and the helpmeet to that minister and that ministry and that makes you highly valuable. God has invested influence in you and I don’t think I don’t think we elevate the role of pastors wives and encourage them enough. You really are the most influential voice in the church. No one can elevate the pastor’s confidence like you. No one can help shape his wisdom like you. No one can destroy his spirit like you. No one can bring him down or make him afraid to make decisions like you. 

Proverbs 31:10 says, Who can find a virtuous wife? For her worth is far above rubies. The heart of her husband safely trusts in her and he will have no lack of gain.” That’s a weird set of things to put together unless you understand how men are wired. A wife’s value is that his heart trusts in her. She is the tool God uses to repair and grow his manhood and focus and ability and his male engine in life. Because of that he’s confident. He’s clear. He’s wise. This impacts his life and his work. He’ll have no lack of gain. And so when a pastor’s heart can safely trust in his wife, it builds him up and it helps him be focused. You are the one who is best equipped to keep him in that lane between arrogance and confidence. A pastor needs to be confident as a leader that he’s heard God’s voice and that he’s making the right decision even when it’s difficult. He doesn’t need to be arrogant and prideful. 

Janet:

And how exactly are we supposed to keep you in that lane?

Greg:

Ah, well, it’s a balance! Ladies know their husbands. God has equipped y’all with those relational skills and tools that you have. So you watch help me understand where I haven’t done this correctly or that needs to get better or whatever. At other times you build me up when you see that I need to be encouraged with “Hey! That’s exactly the way to preach even though nobody came down the aisle today. But God used you and will use that message.” You keep us in that balance. It’s an art, not a science, and every guy’s different and their marriages are different. But as you know your husband, you have the ability to keep him in that leadership lane where he’s confident in what God is doing but he is also dependent on God leading him.

Janet:

Where is the line that maybe I’m speaking too much in your pastor’s ear? What types of conversations are appropriate for me to influence you with and where’s the line that I’m misusing my influence to be bossy or override what God’s leading you to do?

Greg:

I think that’s a great that’s a great question. It’s a wisdom that is developed over time—a spiritual art, not a science. 

#1

In your walk with the Lord, be sensitive to the Holy Spirit on that and pray over those things because we really believe that the Holy Spirit guides us and gives us wisdom. The higher the stakes in the decision, the more danger there is in going too far, the more likely he’s going to want your wisdom.

#2

Being opinionated about everything is difficult. It causes most pastors to flinch back because everybody’s got an opinion about what’s going on. SoI think focusing on him rather than all the stuff is a good way to evaluate that what opinion provides wisdom to him. You’re in that role of wife and not church member and that’s hard because you are a church member and you’re attending, but you’re also thinking through in his role with him. 

#3

Sometimes you and I will have conversations after I come home from a master planning meeting or a long financial committee meeting. I’m deep in the weeds of all this. And so we get in a conversation about it and then want to give suggestions on what should be done. When it’s a bigger issue with a lot of tentacles in it, the more you need to ask questions that help him find wisdom rather than starting to render opinions about what he ought to do. But again, the spiritual art of that and walking with the Lord really will give most wives that wisdom over time to find those lines. 

Janet:

There are lots of times in ministry that are hard and then sometimes they’re really hard. We recently walked through a very very difficult season that I know I did not handle the best way. It was hard for me to exactly understand what you were going through. It was hard for you to talk about it, and I felt left out of a lot of stuff. Then later I understood this was way more complex and way more fraught with peril than I had realized. What could I have done better through that hard season? Many pastors are being pushed out of a job or feeling pressured to minister in certain ways to pacify powerful church members. Some pastors are facing unjust harsh criticism, lies, and staff betrayals. Others are trying to lead their churches out of complex financial or legal dilemmas. All of these crisis situations will take a toll on a pastor’s marriage and family.

What if we’re going through some Seriously. Painfully. Difficult. Yucky. Stuff?

Greg:

Yeah, people say all the time that ministry is messy, and that’s on a normal day! There are other days it’s just gut wrenching. We have been around some turns and twists in life now and had some of those awful experiences that are really, really difficult.

#1

As y’all work through this together, give yourself grace because nobody bats a thousand in the middle of a crisis. It just doesn’t happen. We were built to live through the Garden of Eden, not all this. So we are not equipped. We don’t do it well. We’re going to have stress. We’re going to have moments in the fox hole. And you must have the grace to allow forgiveness, to allow mistakes so we don’t create barriers that push us farther apart. Work through it and keep coming together. But just realize that when you’re in a gut-wrenching crisis situation it’s just super hard. Neither one of you is going to bat a thousand and there’s got to be grace in that.

#2

Listen to each other’s experiences. In some of our conversations I wasn’t quick enough in learning how difficult the experience was on you, just like you said you weren’t seeing how all those awful experiences affected me. We have to learn to talk about “This is what I’m experiencing” so that we are bringing each other into our lives and hearts in that moment rather than “You didn’t do this or you did that” and we’re reacting to the intense difficulty of this moment by allowing emotions to come across as striking out or hiding or blaming or whatever. In really gut-wrenching, difficult circumstances we need each other more than ever. Even in emotional conversations, I need to listen to the other person. I need to know what their experience is so I can understand how we come together, how we bond through this, and how we work through this. Every one of these hard situations can be different, but the nature of them is that they’re hard. We’re both going to have deep experiences because of that and so we have to learn How do I help them? How do I alleviate this?  How do I respond better? How do I communicate? so we’re coming together in this. It’s important that I sit in their seat and hear how this is affecting them so that I can know how to do that. 

#3

Never take for granted building your marriage and being solid. Because you don’t build it in those gut-wrenching times—it carries you. It’s the foundation that allows you to get through that. 

Janet:

How should we pray for our husbands specifically relating to ministry?

Greg:

#1

Pray for wisdom in balancing that tug between family and ministry. I need to do this ministry vs. I need to be with the kids or I need to be with my wife. When I was younger, older guys used to tell me you’ll never regret the amount of time that you spend with your children when you’re older, but you will regret the amount of time you did not spend with them. And I’m now living the truth of that. We spent a lot of time with them, but I regret even more times that we didn’t. Pray that he’ll have wisdom as he is sorting through that in his life. Pray that God will speak to him and give him openness to hear your voice in that. 

I’d encourage wives to read 2 Corinthians 1 where Paul says in a nutshell, I don’t want you to be ignorant about the terrible situation that we were in. We were afraid for our lives. In fact, we just knew we were going to die and we were resolved with the fact that that’s okay because God raises from the dead. And then he says, We were removed and saved from that circumstance because of the prayers of the church. There’s a couple of things in there I think that you need to pray for your husbands:

#2

You need to pray for his protection. Paul makes it very clear that he was in danger and wanted the church to know that and to know that their prayers for his protection were answered. 

#3

You need to pray for his spirit. Just read where it says “we had given up all hope of life and we knew we were gonna die.” Nobody told me when I became a pastor that the pastor’s office is the place where dreams go to die. Your husband is dealing with a drawer full of ideas that he can’t get the church to do. There are so many visionary things that we want to do and we can’t. There are times we get attacked. There are times that people leave the church that shouldn’t have left the church. We were friends and they got mad about some petty thing and they left and that is a burden to our spirit. You need to pray for his spirit to be encouraged.

#4

At the end of that passage, Paul said, But we were okay because we knew that God raises from the dead and our spirit was safe through that because we were confident we were going to gonna die but we’d wake up with Jesus tomorrow. You need to pray that your husband ministers from a confidence in the power of a God who raises from the dead. We need to be close enough to Jesus that we believe God raises from the dead. We serve the God who raises from the dead.

Did you find some helpful encouragement in our conversation?

Unfortunately, one reality of being in a ministry marriage is that it’s not just you and your husband and your children and your in-laws. You’ve also got church people and committee people and sick people and lost people. You’ve got needs and needs and more needs! All these things feel like part of your marriage at times, and it can be hard to figure out how to be married in the midst of all that need sometimes.

But bless you, sweet friend, for being married to a minister.

Bless you for all you do to love and serve your church.

Bless you as Jesus is works in your life.

Bless you as you encourage your husband.

Bless you for being a faithful ministry wife.

Until next time, let’s keep loving Jesus, loving our husbands— even more loving on our husbands!—and loving our people!

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