Hello!
I sure hope you had a wonderful Thanksgiving with special people! As promised, here’s the rest of my conversation with Jeana Floyd, continued from last week’s podcast – Episode 14.
Janet:
Jeana, you and Dr. Floyd did a really good job, an effective job of building a culture on your church staff was very important to you, and y’all had a vision for how you wanted the staff to function and get along well, and that was possible, I guess, over years as you were building and adding to your staff.
We have not always been part of a staff that had a friendly culture, and we are now building a staff from scratch, pretty much. How can you foster… Not that we all need to be best friends, and I’ve told my wives that. We don’t need to be best friends, but we need to be friendly.
What are some ways that you have found to be helpful to bring unity and connection within your staff group?
Jeana Floyd:
Well, it’s been many years of cultivating. When we first came here, I was the youngest staff wife, and we had a very small staff that would fit around one round table. I felt really insecure, because I didn’t feel like I had any kind of authority or more knowledge or anything than the older women around the table. But we embraced one another, and Ronnie had wanted me to start a monthly luncheon. That’s how it started way back when.
As our staff grew, we continued the monthly luncheons, and we weren’t terribly large then, so we would meet in homes, which was really a joy. Then as our staff continued to grow, it got to be quite taxing for a hostess to have that many women. By that time, I was the middle-aged wife. I was no longer the youngest. And as time went on, in the years before we left Cross Church, I became the older woman. And I don’t know how that happened. It remains a mystery to me, but…
Janet:
Because you still look so young, and you act so young.
Jeana Floyd:
I don’t know about that! But anyway, I became the older woman, and I just developed such a deep love for ministry wives, seeing what they go through, knowing their life. It’s the only life I’ve ever known. I just felt like I loved the church, I loved being in ministry. If I could impart to those young wives to find the joy of serving as a minister’s wife, to know how to overcome those obstacles, literally to learn how to love their husbands and how to raise their children in the church, and all of those things that ministry wives go through that is very unique.
There is a real companionship among the wives getting together. By the time we left, our staff was so large that I would have probably around 35 to 40 women at our luncheons. These women were from different campuses, and when they were from different campuses, they would never cross paths with other staff wives. Because we were committed to one church in many locations, we still have a home base. These are not independent churches and campuses, even though they have full staffs. Even if you served on the same campus with another wife, Sunday mornings are not the time to really get to see or know anybody else.
Janet:
Yeah, you don’t socialize.
Jeana Floyd:
No, you don’t have time. You’re working, you’re busy, you’re serving, you’re walking alongside your husband. I found that some of these wives, some deal with loneliness. Personally, I have not dealt with loneliness, probably because I am an introvert, but everybody’s wired differently. Especially for new wives coming in, who’ve moved away from family and all familiarity, if they can just connect with one other person. Our staff had become so large that I couldn’t touch everybody the way that I maybe did in the younger years when our staff was small. It really became a connecting network, and it was just a sweet time of fellowship. We didn’t have a program or anything like that.
They had options through church and each of their campuses, if they wanted to do a Bible study or be a part of a women’s group, they could do that. Their choice, their time. Our fellowships were for us to get acquainted with one another. I always planned things that just were for fellowship. That was our purpose. It was not to do Bible study. It was not to have a prayer meeting, although we always prayed. It was to become aware of the specialty and the needs of the group within us.
And sometimes there needs to be a safe place for staff wives to land. And it might not have even been in front of the whole group, but it might end up being that person sitting next to her at a table. I’ve also seen that as it is, you can have conflict between staff members and between husbands. It seems like the husbands can have conflict and go out and play golf on the weekend. Wives can sometimes take on the offenses of our loved ones. But I could see hearts softened and tender towards one another. When you’re sitting around a table with women that you serve with, your husband serves with, it just softens the heart. Love does cover a multitude of sins.
Janet:
And I know sometimes over the years, maybe Greg is having to deal with a staff member who’s not quite doing what needs to be done, but that really shouldn’t impact my relationship with his wife. I can still love her even if her husband’s causing my husband some stress. And that is one thing I have learned, that I can still be gracious and kind to her because she’s still serving the Lord, she’s still serving the church, she’s still serving her husband, and…
Jeana Floyd:
And it might be a signal of an issue in their marriage.
Janet:
Yeah. And she might not know that her husband’s slacking. But I know it. And I sure don’t want to be the…
Jeana Floyd:
Before I forget, let me say this. I never wanted to be the staff wife Gestapo. That was never going to be my role. I did not confront staff wives. If there’s a problem, the staff member over that person is the one to confront, not me. I wanted to be their encourager. I wanted to build fellowship.
There’s a major difference in a pastor’s wife or other minister’s wife who wants to lord over the staff wives, and I think that’ll get you in trouble really quickly. That’s not my role. That’s not my position. I wasn’t paid to do that. My calling was to love these women, to help them live life as a ministry wife. And hopefully when they’d lived in ministry life as long as I did, they would still love the life of being a minister’s wife.
Janet:
What about ladies whose maybe their husband’s the only person on their church staff or just a few, or like we’ve served before and there was no harmony in the staff, and she’s craving that fellowship.
Should she try to initiate that in her staff? And that’s hard if you’re not the lead pastor’s wife.
Jeana Floyd:
Right, it is. Well, let me address the pastor’s wife who has no staff. And this is one reason I think your podcast is so wonderful because it is a way to connect, even if you are that single minister’s wife on a staff. I would encourage her, find an older woman in ministry and let her be your sounding board. And some deep friendships can be forged in that way, and help meet the need. Or even other local pastor’s wives.
Janet:
I just thought of a couple of ladies that… I don’t know why I haven’t thought to say this before. Every church we’ve ever been in, there have been retired pastors and their wives as just members of the church. That is a great idea. Even if you just find a lady in your church who, like your mom, might be a widow now, was married to a pastor, or I think of Ms. Gloria, brother Otto, who were pastors, and our pastor and wife, retired pastor and wife in our church. And she would’ve been a wonderful… She was a wonderful encourager. So that is a really good point to just find an older godly woman like that.
Jeana Floyd:
And then for the staff that either the pastor’s wife doesn’t take the leadership to connect the wives, which I think is very sad and tragic, because the wives need that. But I don’t think you’re overstepping your boundaries if you just try to have a connection with another staff wife. If you wanted to plan an event, I would definitely call the pastor’s wife.
Janet:
Move it up the chain of command.
Jeana Floyd:
Yes, and say, “Hey, I’d just like for us to get together, and I would love for you to come,” and see how she responds. And every pastor’s wife’s not going to respond, but you go with what you can. And so those who want fellowship, provide it. And those who don’t, maybe their hearts will change. Or usually there’s some deep hurt or betrayal that they don’t feel comfortable. And I think determining, again, you don’t have an agenda. Make sure you don’t look like you’ve got an agenda, but just fellowship and connection. Sometimes all we need is just one other person to listen, to pray, to guide, and help us. And other pastor’s wives across our convention, there’s a wealth of knowledge in reaching out to other women. And I feel like I speak for that generation. We love to help the younger women.
Janet:
I know there are several Facebook groups for pastor’s wives, and our associational missionary in our convention where we are, she’s very intentional about reaching out to the pastor’s wives that are in their association. And if you can’t find fellowship in your own church, then look into the association or the church down the street.
Well, I want to ask about one other thing that’s very hard, and I hate that it’s even a thing that has to be talked about. But there are a lot of miserable ministry wives, and you talked in your book about, it’s hard for a minister husband to fulfill his calling that God has called him to do when his wife is miserable. And I’ve known men who weren’t in the ministry anymore because their wives, they were going to lose their marriage, or perhaps they did lose their marriage because she couldn’t deal with being a ministry wife and then he had to wrestle with all those things. I have had times when maybe I was a little miserable as a minister’s wife.
How would you encourage a woman who’s just really about done with it all?
I know you have a section in your book, too, on how to survive, and “He who dwells in the secret place of the most high shall abide under the shadow of the almighty.” Psalm 91:1. And you’re quite clear in here about the Lord Himself is our sustainer, is our refuge, is our foundation.
And we know that intellectually, but sometimes it is still hard when you have to see that person every Sunday morning, who you know is talking about your husband behind your back, or people who are constantly criticizing your children or holding your children to a different standard than all the other kids in church, or you just are upset because they’re not paying you enough money to survive. So many ways that people are struggling with being miserable, and then the guilt of, I’m supposed to be a Christian and have abundant life in Christ and I’m not seeing it.
What would you say to the miserable wife out there who’s praying that God would give her husband a different kind of job that did not involve church?
Jeana Floyd:
Right. Wow. That’s a hard one. It is. And the reality of it we cannot deny or ignore. And so I’m not going to try to act like you just pray through it or you read your Bible more or whatever, because we’ve been in those church situations, not in Arkansas, but we’ve been in those churches where every decision was a fight. It was constant criticism. At that point our boys were too little to criticize, but there was a lot of demand on Ronnie and he was gone all the time. And it was a very committee-structured church, and he met with all of them, but they were unhappy before we got there.
And so we walked into a situation that was very hard. Previous pastors had all left. There was several under very bad circumstances. So we walked into this situation and we had left a very sweet loving fellowship that, in my naivety as a young, young pastor’s wife, I said, I could spend my whole life here. And I think they had one grocery store and one gas station in the town, but I was happy. And we left that and went to this church that was not a good situation to walk into. And the ironic thing, or maybe not the ironic, but the Holy Spirit thing is that we saw an abundance of people being saved and baptisms and everything. So Ronnie says it was glory on Sunday and hell Monday through Saturday.
But I think about that, and I remember just falling on my knees before the Lord and just saying, “God, I can’t take it anymore.” And I had called a trusted leader in the church and I said, “They are destroying my husband.” And I could see it. They’d just beat him down.
Janet:
Yeah. I feel like I’ve prayed Greg out of jobs before. I thought, “He’s going to have a heart attack if we don’t get out of here.”
Jeana Floyd:
Yes. And I remember it was very clear that the Lord basically said to me, “Hang on. I’m going to get you out of here.” And He did. But we learned a lot through that. And so difficulties can grow you up. Difficulties can make you appreciate what’s really good, and difficulties make you fall on your face before the Lord.
And so all those things, so I’m not going to dismiss the fact that it goes back to your walk with the Lord, but that’s how you’re going to survive. If you stay in His word, and you’re truly depending on him, then those other things, when those fiery darts come at you, you’re going to have the armor of God on you. That doesn’t mean the darts don’t come.
Janet:
Right. And I think a lot of times, I know I personally have felt like, “Lord, I clearly heard you speak to us. I know we are where you told us to go, and this stinks.” And God didn’t ever say we’re not going to have troubles. He said, when we have them, He will be there with us. But you look through scripture and lots of times people were in the middle of mess and terrible things in the middle of God’s will.
Jeana Floyd:
That’s right.
Janet:
And we like to think if we’re in God’s will, it’s going to be smooth and easy and happy. And that’s just a lie. It took me a long time to realize my expectations were not truthful. And so many times we don’t… We’re living based on a lie, not on the truth.
Jeana Floyd:
Well, we’re quick to claim the promises of God that work for our benefit. We love those, but we cannot forget about the saints who endured great hardship, who endured conflict between them. But I really believe that God will sustain you. I want to add this right here, it’s kind of jumping, but there are some times when you may need some professional help, some professional counseling, to help you deal with what you’re dealing with. You can’t change other people, but sometimes someone can give you some skills, some practical biblical skills to help you. And I think that, as times have changed, ministers have become more open to seeking professional help, and wives seeking professional help, and I’m in favor of that, if it’s necessary. And I would say try not to walk it out alone, but you have to be careful.
Janet:
In our convention, anyway, that’s another service provided or offered by our convention offices, the state offices. And so we should never feel like we don’t have access to that kind of… Or there are lots of… It’s not even our denomination. There are lots of counseling centers and things.
Jeana Floyd:
That you never have to leave your home. You can be anonymous.
Janet:
Right. Online. You can do it online, or there’s particularly skilled in helping ministry families, because this is a different type of life.
Jeana Floyd:
I have a dear friend who her husband serves on the staff at Cross Church, and she went back to school and got her counseling degree, and her desire and her calling is to the local church. She’s not really interested at this point hanging a shingle outside an office door. She recognizes the need for biblical counseling within the church. And I just think that’s such a special calling on her life. And I just see how God is using her in a really needful area in the church.
Janet:
And there used to be a stigma on that kind of stuff, but it’s very biblical. We’re supposed to stir one another up to good love and good works. We’re supposed to bear one another’s burdens. We’re supposed to speak scripture to each other. What is more biblical than having a godly person speaking truth into your life and helping you parse through some of, okay, these habits are not going to get me spiritually where I need to be. And that is a very good word.
Jeana Floyd:
One thing that I just thought of, too, is in dealing with that conflict, the reality of dealing with conflict, and each couple has to come to this conclusion on their own, but they must be true to themselves and to the reality of their marriage. And that is, they need to decide how much the husband needs to tell the wife.
Janet:
Oh, about what’s going on at work.
Jeana Floyd:
Yes. Because people respond differently. And if you fall apart and you go berserk over every little bump, because there will be bumps, sometimes there are mountains, then you’re probably not needing to know every detail. Ronnie and I practiced in our marriage that if I didn’t need to know it, I wouldn’t. And I think that helped us tremendously that we didn’t deal with all this stuff when he came home.
Janet:
Because they need a haven from it.
Jeana Floyd:
Yes. They need to get away from it.
Janet:
They need to be recharged.
Jeana Floyd:
And that’s why I believe God put men in positions of leadership because they handle conflict in a different way than women. That’s not to say we are weak, but we do tend to take up an offense when it’s our husbands or our children, and you’ll get yourself in a mess if you start doing that, and then you try to rectify it. It does no good for you to try and solve the problems for your husband. And I promise you, it makes your husband look like a weak leader. If his wife, his wifey, is trying to solve the problems, it makes him look like a weak leader. And you don’t want to do that. You don’t want to undermine his leadership or his manhood, but there are going to be times you’re going to need to know about things.
Another thing, before I forget, when you don’t know what everything and every detail and every conflict that’s going on, when someone approaches you, you can honestly say, with full integrity, I have no idea what you’re talking about. And that just…
Janet:
So they know husband doesn’t come home and tell us.
Jeana Floyd:
Yes. And if you say that enough, they’ll get the message.
Janet:
And they’ll quit asking.
Jeana Floyd:
And they’ll quit asking, and it’ll get around, word of mouth. Now, on those times when you need to be brought along, you need to really make sure you can hold your tongue. Throughout the number of years we were here, we dealt with some really serious issues that confidentiality was supreme. And if you can’t hold your tongue, you don’t need to know.
But I think that’s also part of the growing process. As you grow in ministry, you learn as a couple, as you grow together, the things you need to know, the things you don’t need to know. Therefore, Christ is building your marriage along with the ministry. And as a wife, you learn how to respond better. You find out how your husband needs you to respond, and you grow in your own personal life that you don’t fall apart over everything, or you will have a miserable life.
Janet:
And part of the maturity of being a ministry couple, too, is learning. Everything feels like a crisis in the moment, but so many crisis moments really pass, and nobody ever thinks about them again. The blowup and then everybody’s fine. And you have to learn how to not put more emphasis or importance on people’s… Whatever happens to be the criticism or the issue of the day, because tomorrow there’s going to be a different one, and nobody’s going to remember this one today. But when you’re in the middle of it, especially if you’re younger in ministry in your first church, maybe, it’s overwhelming at how many things come your way that you think, oh my goodness, now I got to deal with this. Now I got to deal with this. Now I got to deal with that. And so many of those things really tend to resolve themselves with a little bit of time. So then the next time they roll around, they’re not quite as panic inducing when they happen.
Jeana Floyd:
I do believe another really great thing about staff wives having connection with one another, as we’ve talked, they’re not all going to be your best friend, but I really believe that God can show you another staff wife, if you have that many on your staff, that you have a similar heart with, and you can have that trusted friend to maybe go and have that hard conversation, talk about your frustration, pray about your frustration. And I think, when you have that kind of a safe place, that really helps you endure those hard times, and to put it behind you and go forward, because like you said, there’ll be another one around the next corner.
It’s like when a quarterback throws an interception, he bears it more than anybody else. He bears the fault. It’s my fault. And I think the pastor and his wife, when things go sideways… They take it to heart, and everybody else may have moved on, and you’re still dwelling with it because… Just because. Because conflict is hard.
Janet:
Because you’re in a leadership position.
Jeana Floyd:
Yes, you’re in that position. And so just maybe finding a trusted friend, if you can just have one. If you can just find one. And maybe that’s someone outside of your church, which is even safer. Even safer. I’ve had a friendship for over 30 years who is a trusted relationship, and she’s never been a member of my church.
Janet:
Your husband’s job does not depend on her.
Jeana Floyd:
No, it does not. And I can pretty much say anything I want to to her. And it’s good, it’s healthy, to have that in your life. And you may not have it right this moment. You may be thinking, as you listen to this podcast, I don’t have anybody in my life. Well, just be patient and grow.
Janet:
Ask the Lord to bring somebody.
Jeana Floyd:
Ask the Lord to bring somebody. Ask the Lord to show you somebody that you can share hard things with. And also, there’s a time just to be quiet and be before the Lord by yourself.
Janet:
I find, and a professional counselor told me this one time, and I found it to be very, very effective, I have found that pouring my heart out on paper is very cleansing to my troubled spirit. And I can say things on paper that’s not going to hurt anybody else’s feelings or not rile up a new argument, but just I’m able to express all of my grief, all of my anger, all of my frustration, and it gets it out of my soul. The hurt is still there, but it’s not quite as heavy. And even if I haven’t shared it with another person, just putting it on paper or typing it out or whatever, even if you immediately burn it or delete it.
Jeana Floyd:
I was going to say, you can torch it when you’re done.
Janet:
Yes. But just that has been very helpful with me relieving some of that pressure and angst.
Jeana Floyd:
And if you read the book of Psalms…That’s what David did.
Janet:
Emotional up chuck all over the place.
Jeana Floyd:
Yes, over and over again. And David gives me lots of freedom.
Janet:
Because he was still a man after God’s own heart, and he didn’t get it all right. Well, that is a great place to end. I could talk to you for hours, but we’ve got to go to lunch! But thank you, Jeana. I appreciate your modeling. I appreciate your mentoring and your encouragement. I’ve seen you encourage other ministry wives, and I am trying to be more like you!
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Click here for the Amazon link for Jeana’s book 10 Things Every Minister’s Wife Needs to Know.
I highly recommend it. It’s very good!
I also wanted to tell you about one other book by Pastor Adrian Rogers’s wife, Joyce called Chosen to Be a Minister’s Wife. This is a very good book also. She not only gives personal details from her marriage to Adrian Rogers and their ministry life together, but she also gives very clear steps for how to deal with some of these hardships that we’ve talked about, about being a pastor’s wife, and lots of practical tips in here that will help you embrace delight in your ministry life calling, and I highly recommend it.
Click here for Joyce Rogers’ book Chosen to Be a Minister’s Wife
Happy holidays, friend!
